Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors.

Question for the lipid people! Why would a keto person with high LDL and low HDL / TG be protected from atherosclerosis when metabolically healthy adults see a linear increase in subclinical atherosclerosis with increasing LDL-C concentrations? https://t.co/wRKR2dYiN0 https://t.co/01raR3Mkk4

No problem. High LDL with a low TG/HDL ratio is still inferior to low LDL with a low TG/HDL ratio within the same dataset Feldman loves to cite: https://t.co/6g4qFpu8Bj High LDL predicts plaque volume in metabolically healthy populations too: https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://t.co/GxuJWdvgiy

https://t.co/mNByOPTpbq

5/8 The icing on the cake is that there is still a dose-dependent relationship between LDL-C and ASCVD observed in younger populations that have optimized the risk factors you mentioned. It's not clear at all how this is more expected on your hypothesis. https://t.co/CwA7gO9MAR https://t.co/VReXye1LlV

@PeterFaberSP @Tom_Babington1 @NutritionMadeS3 https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ https://t.co/6g4qFpu8Bj https://t.co/xMHRw28AHH Get clear on this literature before talking about this subject, k?

@maxlugavere @BaboonWatch You do realize your LDL is higher to degree that is probably clinically relevant, right? https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ

@BenBikmanPhD Metabolically healthy population

@paulsaladinomd Please talk about this study. Optimal biomarkers with not so high ldl had subclinic arterioscloreose Dont know what to believe https://t.co/PYVz2tftgH

@scmedicinals Please talk about this study. They found that people with normal levels of ldl with optimal biomarkers had plaque progression https://t.co/PYVz2tg16f

@anthonygjay @JayFerruggia Analyse this study please https://t.co/PYVz2tftgH

@SamaHoole The science has progressed ... This study in metabolically healthy people (no diabetes, inflammation and all the rest) saw atherosclerosis develop even if their LDL-C was only 60 mg/dL (1.55 mmol/L) and above https://t.co/6jzCTwIs4u https://t.co/qwwHIVHZmT

@DoctorTro Metabolically healthy population

@BiggestComeback Metabolically healthy population

@theproof PESA Normal LDL is mentioned here. 89% of PESA Normal LDL have CAC=0. While 94% of optimal cvrfs have CAC=0. subclinical yes but mostly in their femoral arteries which assoc with A1C and 20% were pre-T2D with 5.7 or higher. https://t.co/8sQ9OqkyQW https://t.co/JcB6c22uUO

RT @NutritionMadeS3: https://t.co/mNByOPTpbq

Understanding THIS avoids Heart Disease | LDL controversy | Cardiology E... https://t.co/TqtWD4SRTV via @YouTube

https://t.co/mNByOPTpbq

@MurseDarius @ProfTimNoakes @realDaveFeldman This is probably the closest we have to such a study. These people were free of conventional risk factors and had a TG/HDL ratio of 1.18. https://t.co/wRKR2dHfL0 https://t.co/YLuPpoln82

@SamaHoole If your LDL-C is above around just 60 mg/dL (or 1.55 mmol/L), then you are still developing atherosclerosis ... https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2 https://t.co/bM6vrcUSwP

@ifixhearts Metabolically healthy population

@David3828279 @Marijn3D @KenDBerryMD It's been studied. Metabolically healthy people (all good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose / inflammation / BMI) still lay down plaque if their LDL-C is above only 60 mg/dL (or 1.55 mmol/L) Several other studies showing the same are available https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2 https://t.co/wCGJYvacDl

@SBakerMD Metabolically healthy population ie all good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose / inflammation / BMI ✅ Protected from heart disease? N0 - if their LDL-C was above only 60 mg/dL (or 1.55 mmol/L),

@rsgoins77 Yes, LDL correlates with subclinical atherosclerosis in healthy adults. https://t.co/wRKR2dHfL0 https://t.co/pGi2lXEyxY

@crazieyfox @r_erhart @ifixhearts This has been specifically studied A metabolically healthy population (

@SamaHoole Metabolically healthy population

@mpc_xetts @KenDBerryMD (3) I like to quote this study here, as it also shows peripheral plaque, not only CAC, and it displays the linear association of disease with LDL-C even at lower levels. https://t.co/fZCNrrZKCU

@DietHeartNews Metabolically healthy population

@tiras_corner Metabolically healthy population All good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose / inflammation

@LieDetector44 @theproof (2) With LDL-C 50 - 70 mg/dl there is very low chance for plaque formation. We are born with LDL-C around 50 mg/dl https://t.co/fZCNrrZKCU We often can‘t reach levels that low (again) without meds. Modern hunter gatherers do that easily. I know we are missing a puzzle piece here.

RT @LLicit_Tweet: @robertlufkinmd Metabolically healthy population - all good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose

@robertlufkinmd Metabolically healthy population - all good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose

@LDLSkeptic @MohammedAlo @DoctorTro Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors, 2017 https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@DudzLightLime @MohammedAlo @RaphaS896035 @robt_heartdoc @DoctorTro @lipo_fan @DrIngold https://t.co/8sQ9Oql6Gu

@RaphaS896035 @robt_heartdoc @DoctorTro @lipo_fan @DudzLightLime @DrIngold @MohammedAlo When actually measured, IR (even before overt pre-D/T2D) is very common today. Here (often cited) they attempted to exclude those with 'risk factors', still ended up w/ 20% in pre-diabetic/diabetic a1c range. https://t.co/8sQ9Oql6Gu https://t.co/qJGaWit1M9

@ifixhearts Metabolically healthy population

@carlso17546 @SRhoadsCA @ElieJarrougeMD Metabolically healthy population

@Marion436842126 Pity - it's actually been studied .. All good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose

@raven_starver @jasongordo626 @JohnLee832759 @KenDBerryMD There is no such evidence. Who claims that there is? On the contrary. Even LDL-C in the high normal range in lean people, without any risk factors lead to plaques. Have you heard of sudden cardiac death in athletes? Most of the time it’s a MI. https://t.co/fZCNrrZKCU

@henry77761681 @RelentlessV3g4n @Maroxad I mean... https://t.co/G7tGxGFahR https://t.co/Mp9OISx1kD https://t.co/wo1nN2XhiI There is so many. https://t.co/Yn1PNEhR9i https://t.co/Jq3EDPoVLV https://t.co/rM0Ca82Xux https://t.co/k16AXEuUOy Just so so many.

RT @LLicit_Tweet: @ElieJarrougeMD Metabolically healthy population

@brettboettcher1 Metabolically healthy population

@ElieJarrougeMD Metabolically healthy population

@drericwestman Metabolically healthy population

@CaryKelly11 2/ Metabolically healthy population

@BenDavi13814607 @NutritionMadeS3 Those who are metabolically healthy (incl. insulin resistance but also blood pressure, weight, inflammation & more) are still accumulating plaque even at relatively low LDL-C levels (eg above 60mg/dl) https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@chrisboettcher9 In metabolically healthy people i.e. all good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose / INFLAMMATION / BMI, and more If LDL-C levels are above only 60 mg/dL (or 1.55 mmol/L) then plaque is accumulating ... https://t.co/Zws50ULuYR https://t.co/3XZfHnO4ne

@CaryKelly11 @ifixhearts Been tested already: In those who are metabolically healthy (ie all good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose / INFLAMMATION / BMI etc) If LDL-C levels are above just 60 mg/dL (or 1.55 mmol/L) then plaque accumulation is happening https://t.co/Zws50ULuYR https://t.co/ECKWCSFxWA

@ElieJarrougeMD Already been studied. In those who are metabolically healthy (all good re smoking / blood pressure / blood glucose / INFLAMMATION / BMI etc), LDL-C above just 60 mg/dL (or 1.55 mmol/L) leads to plaque accumulation ... https://t.co/Zws50ULuYR https://t.co/vIVt2s0ceW

https://t.co/ELiQt8A12U

https://t.co/IvAWlwIEiC

@Cory_S_Miller81 @vegansarcasm Blood work? There have been many vegans who have done blood work against people on a animal based diet. All pick just one even though there's a mountain of them

@Marion436842126 Plaque starts accumulating at just 60 mg/dL of LDL, even in metabolically healthy people so could easily have a heart attack with a total cholesterol of 105 (roughly 90% of which is LDL) https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@dsatyajit @shashiiyengar @arunkumar3112 @TheIraSahay @jasmeet481 @FITholic_Health Those who are metabolically healthy (no insulin resistance, no inflammation, not overweight and more) accumulate plaque if their LDL is above only 60 mg/dL https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@MeTheAngryCat @ifixhearts Yes - this is it Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors https://t.co/Zws50ULuYR

@ifixhearts This is the paper: Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@_AshleyRichmond This has been studied. Metabolically healthy people (no insulin resistance, not overweight, no inflammation etc etc) still lay down plaque above 60 mg/dL of LDL ... https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@Inversionism Why then does high LDL cause heart disease in those who are metabolically healthy (no inflammation, elevated blood glucose, excess weight etc). https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@SamaHoole "How have they determined what is excess cholesterol / LDL?" By well controlled studies like this (in metabolically healthy individuals what's more) that shows you lay down plaque anywhere above 60 mg/dL LDL-C ... https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2 https://t.co/EkYOTbb9eF

@LucySeabrooke @CaryKelly11 They have specifically studied heart disease in the metabolically healthy (smoking ❌, blood pressure / blood glucose / inflammatory markers / BMI✅etc). Still as LDL-C⬆️ > arteriosclerosis. And this is just from levels of LDL-C above 60 mg/dL ... https://t.co/Zws50ULuYR https://t.co/CQIXra0H1x

@kfaridiMD From PESA Normal LDL study. https://t.co/8sQ9OqkyQW https://t.co/2j1xiyB1Lm

RT @MohammedAlo: 7️⃣This study adds to data from PESA, Sweden and Korea study showing that atherosclerosis is common in healthy adults:- 1…

RT @kfaridiMD: This study adds to data from PESA, showing that atherosclerosis (CAC or plaque on ultrasound imaging) is common in healthy a…

@jimmy_muthami @MohammedAlo You are confused. If you had the same blood pressure in your arteries as you do in your veins you would be dead. Those without hypertension still get plaque https://t.co/J7kkPqRYFz https://t.co/tq5rQH4nVS

RT @MohammedAlo: 7️⃣This study adds to data from PESA, Sweden and Korea study showing that atherosclerosis is common in healthy adults:- 1…

7️⃣This study adds to data from PESA, Sweden and Korea study showing that atherosclerosis is common in healthy adults:- 1)https://t.co/y1EJqnbsMS 2)https://t.co/ppU1nlinrO 3)https://t.co/JyvQzDTgU2

This study adds to data from PESA, showing that atherosclerosis (CAC or plaque on ultrasound imaging) is common in healthy adults from Spain, and is strongly associated with LDL-C: https://t.co/nAz3UVNJda

@CaryKelly11 A study on this. Healthy individuals with no risk factors (weight, BP, blood glucose & yes inflammation) still lay down plaque above 60 mg/dL .. "Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors" https://t.co/6jzCTwIs4u

@ElieJarrougeMD This has looked at. Healthy people (in terms of smoking, BP, obesity, inflammation, blood glucose, weight etc) get plaque when LDL > 60 mg/dL ... Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@DoctorTro For the "but I'm metabolically healthy" people - that accumulation of plaque for LDL > 60 occurred in healthy individuals (no smoking, no elevated blood pressure / blood glucose / inflammatory markers or obesity ...) https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2

@DoctorTro If your LDL-C is above approx 60, then you are laying down plaque. Which much much later will turn up on CAC scans ... https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2 https://t.co/sixX8L743b

@arteesun And again you still have NOT INTERACTED WITH EITHER THE PESA COHORT OR THE MEDNELIAN RANDOMIZATION. You don't get to ignore these. https://t.co/2rVEjXn6z7 seriously you don't get to ignore them

@muggebugg @triagemethod @matt_mingkee @nicknorwitz Here they only looked at metabolically healthy individuals (no smoking, no elevated blood pressure / blood glucose / inflammatory markers or obesity etc). So none of the other possible causes you mention, yet as LDL-C⬆️ > arteriosclerosis⬆️ https://t.co/6jzCTwIZU2 https://t.co/rTMWRZ3diH

@jimbovelure @MohammedAlo https://t.co/SEKQBrSdcD that's the conclusion of the PESA cohort

@LowCarbEyeDoc @paulsaladinomd https://t.co/JGIedr9y5U

https://t.co/hb7IQFar1N https://t.co/mtS0cSEgi5

@BHBEnjoyer @CarnivoreIs @vniskasa @DrPlantel You know you can subgroup a cohort to look at a specific sample. Particularly those w/out other cardiovascular risk factors. https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT https://t.co/5wWWVCBGIt

@theproof @nicknorwitz @realDaveFeldman Underlying study. https://t.co/sM8vbkqnZe

@arteesun @jimbovelure @MohammedAlo @degriffin10 @jimmy_muthami @SteakAndWeights https://t.co/h4ZXZk0aJu

@ZahcM https://t.co/logG5ztBgF

@theproof JK plantboy you’ve probably read it many times, it the DENIERS WORST NIGHTMARE! That and the LA VETERANS TRIAL! This CHART is in the SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIAL! PERIOD! https://t.co/ZF4RNcj30P

@RDhealthwealth @SentientBlobBob It's not healthy to have elevated total cholesterol or LDL-levels https://t.co/H2vRVNLYLd https://t.co/HvkBqyYrZQ we even have mendelian randomizations https://t.co/UUEdbQ6dNc

RT @BrezanSimonMD: Many middle-aged indiv. have atherosclerosis. LDL-C, even at levels currently considered normal, is independ. associated…

@drpablocorral @DudzLightLime @lipo_fan @Griffith17431 Compare Pesa IR vs Pesa LDL (or to CARDIA). Approx 3x risk of CAC in Pesa IR (39%) vs Pesa LDL (15%) at same age of approx 45. Note Pesa LDL with the intention to exclude IR still contained 20% pre-diabetic as per Hba1C. https://t.co/8sQ9OqkyQW https://t.co/sxlan1JTW4 https://t.co/mcasb77HuF

@BHBEnjoyer @DavidMe17661988 LDLc concentration predicts the presence and multiterritorial extent of atherosclerosis per standard deviation increase, even in individuals w/ risk factors in the optimal range (no hypertension, no diabetes, etc.) https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT https://t.co/FXNelbz3JR

@William10874873 @DavidMe17661988 @ChiefJohnBoy In those without CVD risk factors it does still matter https://t.co/4MO8wqKcZy

@bcencio @jerryteixeira @MohammedAlo You still see LDL-C reflect atherosclerosis even in cohorts with low inflammation, no IR, etc., so it’s not true that it’s fine in those contexts. https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT The Oreo thing just sounds like a non sequitur. Not sure why that’s what we should conclude about it. https://t.co/9iIkftUyjv

@PeterJAnderson_ @mario_kratz @NikosNoulezas @LDLSkeptic Even "Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors". https://t.co/Zw9kC11qRi Of course things are worse if you have other risk factors: HTN, diabetes, smoking &obesity are all part of standard ASCVD risk calculators

@SBakerMD According to this study you have 30% chance of developing atherosclerosis anyway. https://t.co/VgLHc71La5 I wish you were right. My lipids, my glucose, insulin, all is perfect apart from LDL-C, but after listening to @Drlipid and @NutritionMadeS3 I am starting to worry! https://t.co/PJBnl4GnJI

@Hezerminator @DavidMe17661988 @carniyogi That's not true. See the PESA cohort. LDL-C still predicts the presence of atherosclerosis even in the absence of other risk factors - low hs-CRP, low blood sugar, low blood pressure, etc. https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT https://t.co/OsYav1gHKz

@Unsettled_USA @YYCREGuy @SBakerMD Why would it matter that they have normal LDL? The relationship between LDL and ASCVD extends into the normal range with lower levels leading to lower risk. Car accident risk decreases as speed decreases but accidents can still happen at 5 MPH https://t.co/rDV5UaB6xh

@ScepticalDoctor @theproof @DBelardoMD @MiocanDanijel [1] https://t.co/tcOXWW6x3X [2] https://t.co/JGIedr9y5U [3] https://t.co/cBK3T8FZk1

@ThelastStyleb16 @drdrew I’m claiming LDL itself causes endothelial dysfunction. I mentioned this because you said atherosclerosis requires endothelial dysfunction suggesting high LDL alone isn’t sufficient. We could also look to this study https://t.co/rDV5UaBEmP

Data > Diet Validation [1] https://t.co/NCy6yRRvSf [2] https://t.co/TzP2tWYxnc [3] https://t.co/agHVeMXjK6 @drpablocorral @Drlipid @DrNadolsky

@LewisWithrow5 @ElieJarrougeMD If you mean to suggest that LDL-C doesn’t predict atherosclerosis outside of the context of hyperinsulinemia, see the PESA cohort, bc that’s false. https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT Statins reduce risk. So do PCSK9 inhibitors and bile acid sequestrants. What are you talking about?

@fellowshipnate @LORASHIEL @ScepticalDoctor Seems to be a bunch of red herrings. Even when stratified by HDL-C, LDL-C independently associates w/ risk. See the PESA cohort -https://t.co/KYgJ6ZYqSG HDL-C itself doesn't seem to be protective. This is divulged by the MR and how raising HDL-C w/ niacin doesn't reduce events.

RT @DrAlanDesmond: @kevinawanderer @SBakerMD @veganuary With an LDL of 150 mg/dl you have a greater than 60% risk of atherosclerosis. Not g…

LDL-C was independently associated with atherosclerosis presence and extent, in even those with other optimal risk factors, such as blood pressure and fasting glucose 2/3 @MohammedAlo @paulsaladinomd https://t.co/drOsGEnt6b https://t.co/orRDIvu6dT

@BHBEnjoyer @aCarnivoreDiet All good points, and I appreciate the discussion. Given that atherosclerotic burden increases proportionally to greater LDL concentrations in even healthy adults, apoB must penetrate in proportion to serum concentration, be it passively or actively. Yes? https://t.co/wRKR2dHfL0

@ifixhearts You already know this but you have propaganda to push. In case you forgot (you didn’t) here is for the rest of your cultists to read. Normal range is too high. https://t.co/XJMHUQEhCQ

@henrylegion @Blocker3Jack @griffd @0xgaut @CommunityNotes @nutrition_facts 1. That study, which you clearly haven't even read, but I have, is meaningless. The title is in error to start with. "Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors" You cannot have atherosclerosis without something

A este respecto el estudio PESA dejo en evidencia que incluso pacientes con LDL considerado normal y sin otros FRCV desarollaban ateroesclerosis, en una relación directamente proporcional https://t.co/eDRLScf3Zs https://t.co/L0rO6jO9Bt

@ThelastStyleb16 @Lpa_Doc I think that in healthy adults without other risk factors, LDL had a linear risk with atherosclerosis. This and other data suggest that <70 mg/dL eliminates risk in healthy adults, which lines up with the concentrations of modern hunter-gatherers. https://t.co/wRKR2dHfL0 https://t.co/yXO51srLhd

@EstebanDL Qué pensas de este tipo de estudios? Personas sin factores de riesgo, niveles de LDL correlacionan con nivel de aterosclerosis... no es esperable más eventos en el largo plazo a más LDL? Pregunto honestamente https://t.co/nstnYnrUcc https://t.co/or3PwMfdoT

RT @DrAlanDesmond: @kevinawanderer @SBakerMD @veganuary With an LDL of 150 mg/dl you have a greater than 60% risk of atherosclerosis. Not g…

@kevinawanderer @SBakerMD @veganuary With an LDL of 150 mg/dl you have a greater than 60% risk of atherosclerosis. Not good. @SBakerMD is way to the right of this graph. https://t.co/YLz1LfU5hh https://t.co/7K4DWAqYlf

@Arua_Macedo @GarethRowland20 @k_sudborough https://t.co/i7j4bUVvPM

@daftbull1 @thehealthb0t Check out my nutritionist friend Derek ❤️ https://t.co/zvBjsoJzqi

@nfn80 @paulmelzer1 @Team_Xtremee @lowcarbGP @LDLSkeptic @KenDBerryMD @DoctorTro @ifixhearts @DrScottMurray @bschermd @DrAseemMalhotra @lowcarb_aus @BrownAdey @AdrianSotoMota Atherosclerosis with no insulin resistance or other risk factors. It’s LDL/ApoB https://t.co/nsPQm45yYo

Many middle-aged indiv. have atherosclerosis. LDL-C, even at levels currently considered normal, is independ. associated w the presence and extent of early systemic atherosclerosis in the absence of major RFs. #CardioTwitter #CardioEd #MedTwitter https://t.co/QiWv9WnEKn https://t.co/J6PNIb3P5u

En el proceso de la aterosclerosis hay factores inmiscuidos diferentes a la sola dislipidemia. Activación de inflamación y coagulación que llevan a desarrollarla, aún en presencia de valores “normales”. https://t.co/Gz2Fa46O04

@FatAngryBoomer1 @ZackStrength ""High" LDL is irrelevant unless its probably at least >160 total." Not true. Even in the LDL group of 110-120 almost 50% had subclinical atherosclerosis. The lower you have it the better in terms of cardiovascular disease. https://t.co/UtPvYXDj2W https://t.co/ejzKhQeWda

@HenryFailsafe @Olicsa06 @RickTheV1 @sensemakr @skibumbobby And another vegan health coach who couldn't keep his B12 levels normal. Good thing he's rich enough to get blood tests and doctor visits, unlike developing world people https://t.co/8xdwDza2Dv

@fvrmix @Tellit007 @ntapia @nutrition_facts This one does. The effect is still observable even in the absence of insulin resistance. https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ

@dnarunner That’s not how it works. LDL-c is associated with atherosclerotic plaque even with no other risk markers such as heightened inflammation https://t.co/nsPQm45yYo

@nicknorwitz @ClausCarlsen1 @Nope53640754 @moomoolabiff @javvta @LDLSkeptic @DoctorTro @BrianLenzkes What would convince you elevated ApoB is sufficient? https://t.co/nsPQm45yYo

5/8 The icing on the cake is that there is still a dose-dependent relationship between LDL-C and ASCVD observed in younger populations that have optimized the risk factors you mentioned. It's not clear at all how this is more expected on your hypothesis. https://t.co/CwA7gO9MAR https://t.co/VReXye1LlV

“Normal” LDL cholesterol levels (100 mg/dL / 2.59 mmol/L) still associate with risk of atherosclerosis in ppl with otherwise optimal CV risk factors. https://t.co/gfCqh0fVQo https://t.co/L11MEehriV

@ThelastStyleb16 @drmatthewnagra @NutritionMadeS3 @fproofmastery https://t.co/1PxI8AFzfl https://t.co/NeQaVUNDrJ https://t.co/rkt8VnCUMG https://t.co/T5Evjf2yUC.

@thoroughlyconf1 @NutritionMadeS3 This gets close to what you're asking for. Even after accounting for virtually all known risk factors, LDL still independently associates with atheroma volume. https://t.co/CwA7gO9MAR

@Regenarian @ScepticalDoctor https://t.co/V6XUnph7i6 This is a superior version of Dave's study as it analysed how different levels LDL-C associates with atherosclerotic plaque in the absence of other risk factors.

@PrimaryCarePAC Are we looking at the same paper? Slightly different. https://t.co/yPnue74GR2 https://t.co/knOgM65p2f

@hu43279853 @mister_hunt @LDLSkeptic @DoctorTro @ElieJarrougeMD @ethanjweiss Yes it still occurs https://t.co/Iug7jxLUrn https://t.co/Ug1jQdWdYP https://t.co/7Bodh4U5Jf

@holmanm The authors weakly dismiss this study that applies to me. LDL-C independently associated with atherosclerosis. Your thoughts? https://t.co/RUNwAEAUpo

@MifuneKinski @nicknorwitz It is both necessary and sufficient https://t.co/F3INbdyvPx

RT @TheNutrivore: No problem. High LDL with a low TG/HDL ratio is still inferior to low LDL with a low TG/HDL ratio within the same dataset…

No problem. High LDL with a low TG/HDL ratio is still inferior to low LDL with a low TG/HDL ratio within the same dataset Feldman loves to cite: https://t.co/6g4qFpu8Bj High LDL predicts plaque volume in metabolically healthy populations too: https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://t.co/GxuJWdvgiy

@Herd851 @iwantthescience @theproof Thoughts? https://t.co/mL6sS0Ebx4 https://t.co/froajZ8qYv

@twitevit @AlastairMcA30 @DrPaulMason That’s incorrect https://t.co/F3INbdgUqX

4/10 Even when LDL-C is normal in the context of optimizing other major risk factors, lower LDL-C is still better in a dose-dependent manner. We know the optimal LDL-C range is far, far lower than the "normal" LDL-C range. https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ https://t.co/Dm4lLpS0yl

@maxlugavere @BaboonWatch TC/HDL and TG/HDL are correlates for ApoB, which is why they're generally more reliable markers than LDL-C. Your ApoB is likely higher. But, regardless. Your position doesn't fly, based on the PESA results. I'll link it again. https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ

@maxlugavere @BaboonWatch You do realize your LDL is higher to degree that is probably clinically relevant, right? https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ

RT @The_Nutrivore: @PeterFaberSP @Tom_Babington1 @NutritionMadeS3 https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ https://t.co/6g4qFpu8Bj https://t.co/xMHRw28AHH…

RT @The_Nutrivore: @PeterFaberSP @Tom_Babington1 @NutritionMadeS3 https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ https://t.co/6g4qFpu8Bj https://t.co/xMHRw28AHH…

@PeterFaberSP @Tom_Babington1 @NutritionMadeS3 https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ https://t.co/6g4qFpu8Bj https://t.co/xMHRw28AHH Get clear on this literature before talking about this subject, k?

@loneshuriken @sauteslut @Emlougar @CapitalistV3GAN @forktown385 @espiteau A. Fortification IS supplementation. B. Simnett nutrition did that and failed. His vegan doctor said theta common. And the discussion was on vegans not needing blood tests. You'll be giving permanent neuro damage with that advice. https://t.co/8xdwDyRTpn

@Emlougar @forktown385 @CapitalistV3GAN @espiteau the point is that vegans say veganism makes you heart attack proof. That's the point! It doesn't. Here's simnett nutrition, another vegan health coach who has been vegan for many years, with B12 deficiency. Seems like almost all who GET tested are low. https://t.co/GSsbyt8aDK

@Emlougar @CapitalistV3GAN @forktown385 @espiteau Simnett nutrition consciously tried to just take fortified foods instead of B12 supps, and he failed to keep his B12 levels normal. The doctor he's discussing it with says that's common. You need blood tests. https://t.co/8xdwDyRTpn

@Hezerminator @jensmuush @airamallas Kuten kuvasta huomaat niin suomalaisten LDL keskiarvoa vastaava mg/dl luku sijoittuu välille 140-150.Tällä ryhmällä todettiin prekliinistä ateroskleroosia yli 50%:lla Että näytäppä mulle tutkimus joka toteaa sokerin nostavan LDL:ää, kun kalor. huomioidaan https://t.co/aHviGSN52O

@andyswarbs @AngusTrevithick @AlexaCo92055624 @mhd25112 Simnett nutrition tried that and it didn't work. The doctor he's discussing his blood work with says he sees many vegans with low B12 who relied on fortified foods.. Your advice is incredibly dangerous. https://t.co/8xdwDyRTpn

@PeterFaberSP @TheCarnivoreKid @realDaveFeldman are you aware atherosclerosis begins in childhood? And people with no risk factors have atherosclerosis in a dose response manner to LDL? https://t.co/4ueOFAbVL0

@AmandaZZ100 @ScepticalDoctor @MacroFour @dylanarmbruste3 @Plant_proof @krosenque @NutritionMadeS3 @deirdre_tobias @realDaveFeldman @MacroEight @MattMadore576 @MyNutritionSci @drmatthewnagra And then you've got the PESA cohort. LDL independently associated with degree of atherosclerosis even in the absence of other CV risk factors. The picture is clear again. https://t.co/xEdEy1wl7F https://t.co/VvevDiIo5P

@MJPadula @MatthewSapero @Plant_proof @Veganella_ @CarnivoreMD @AviBittMD @deirdre_tobias @ethanjweiss @DrNadolsky @Drgarthdavis @ScepticalDoctor @kevinnbass What's normal? Give a number https://t.co/4ueOFAbVL0

@MichaelAlbertMD I appreciate the amendment and the intellectual honesty, but I think it's probably still wrong in terms of ASCVD. Not sure about events. I think we could infer that increasing subclinical ASCVD would be likely to increase the risk of events. https://t.co/CwA7gO9MAR

@PeterFaberSP @foodbeforepills @change_states We have. https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ

@change_states @PeterFaberSP It's also beside the point, because Dave's lipid triad has been investigated multiple times. There's still an increase in risk. https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ https://t.co/6g4qFpu8Bj

@RaisinTheStakes @TheeBurgerDude I got something you might like. https://t.co/Z10YzE1oBf https://t.co/HGsb9Qs8kw

"Many CVRF-free middle-aged individuals have atherosclerosis. LDL-C, even at levels currently considered normal, is independently associated with the presence and extent of early systemic atherosclerosis in the absence of major CVRFs." https://t.co/ZzRt1kUXmV

@CameronMMurray @RamsesAmericas @michelletandler The same one as this https://t.co/Mz06MzCk0Q

@MichaelMindrum Sorry this is the PESA study link I was thinking of that speaks more to LDL-C: https://t.co/OM7kp5lwdn

@Ranger_Hodl You've "never" seen but yesterday I sent you Derek, who's been vegan over 10 years and is highly fit+healthy: https://t.co/PujB9bpQq6 This guy shares his blood result after 20 years of veganism: https://t.co/nhVurR74XK 28 years of being vegan: https://t.co/2ZGbi8a3gP

@kevinnbass @PlantBasedLift1 Particularly given the ave. persons LDL sits at about 125 mg/DL in US (& Aus) placing them at higher risk of atherosclerosis. https://t.co/DnsjbpW5Tv https://t.co/nVXAM4QAfZ

@mosca_matthew @IMWHorvitz @AlexJLeaf @jerryteixeira @raphaels7 @DoctorTro @LDLskeptic2 LDL levels still correlate with subclinical atherosclerosis even in the absence of other cardiovascular risk factors. https://t.co/V6XUnph7i6

@dylanarmbruste3 @SquiggleBK @Drlipid You can try this one https://t.co/ZJ4NvfkIuk

@The_Nutrivore @Tom_Babington1 @POhukainen https://t.co/yfkBUkT5KL Mentioned it here after Tom had already, here's an actual link: https://t.co/NeQaVUNDrJ and this was the response: https://t.co/4GL1mfQpSo

@The_Nutrivore @MattMadore576 @POhukainen https://t.co/60jrVAzcCo

@Adityalch @The_Nutrivore 1. Do you actually read the citations provided? https://t.co/60jrVAzcCo. 2. Can you provide evidence for this?

@StolteThiago @KetoCarnivore Looks like after adjustment for BP, BMI, diabetes etc, apoB was still a strong predictor of CAC. In this one, even in the absence of other risk factors, LDL was still associated with atherosclerosis. Confirming its independent role. https://t.co/xEdEy1vNi7 https://t.co/ZEQsj57MdB

RT @MyNutritionSci: @umeshchhikara @DaveKeto @ScepticalDoctor https://t.co/V6XUnph7i6

RT @fjavesc: Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors Amazing Figure! J…

RT @fjavesc: Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors Amazing Figure! J…

@Gearoidmuar @Alecsplaining "In this study of apparently healthy individuals without conventional CVRFs, we demonstrated a direct, independent link between LDL-C levels and atherosclerotic burden. In fact, LDL-C was the strongest modifiable factor associated with atherosclerosis" https://t.co/60jrVAzcCo https://t.co/0scsdEBNvU

10 YEAR VEGAN FULL BLOOD TEST ANALYSIS WITH DOCTOR | AM I THRIVING OR NOT? https://t.co/Q46JlVVP9L via @YouTube

10 YEAR VEGAN FULL BLOOD TEST ANALYSIS WITH DOCTOR | AM I THRIVING OR NOT? https://t.co/vfbZCA9dz0 via @YouTube #Vegan #veganfood #VeganLife

RT @MyNutritionSci: @umeshchhikara @DaveKeto @ScepticalDoctor https://t.co/V6XUnph7i6

@umeshchhikara @DaveKeto @ScepticalDoctor https://t.co/V6XUnph7i6

RT @MyNutritionSci: @DaveKeto @ryanvdreyer @Tom_Babington1 And in every context so far, higher LDL increases CVD risk. The causality of LDL…

@DaveKeto @ryanvdreyer @Tom_Babington1 And in every context so far, higher LDL increases CVD risk. The causality of LDL is not dependent on the lipid triad. There is already data of LDL causality in the absence of other risk factors.. a linear relationship still exists. One of many examples.. https://t.co/V6XUnph7i6

Kyseessä tutkimus keski-ikäisistä jossa käsiteltiin nimenomaan prekliinisen ateroskleroosin määrää. https://t.co/xqFw8uoDB8 Tämä luku on hyvin linjassa potilaanlääkärilehden kirjoituksen kanssa. Siinä todetaan, että n. puolet suomalaisista saa asiaan liittyen kliin. kohtauksia.

RT @drtom_butler: @escardio Some interesting evidence suggest that there is even some risk with "normal" levels and that its not only amoun…

@escardio Some interesting evidence suggest that there is even some risk with "normal" levels and that its not only amount that is important, but also the duration of exposure. See https://t.co/aRm2Y99bxU and https://t.co/rUHACvusQL #rduk #DietAndCholesterol

RT @AlexJLeaf: Question for the lipid people! Why would a keto person with high LDL and low HDL / TG be protected from atherosclerosis whe…

Question for the lipid people! Why would a keto person with high LDL and low HDL / TG be protected from atherosclerosis when metabolically healthy adults see a linear increase in subclinical atherosclerosis with increasing LDL-C concentrations? https://t.co/wRKR2dYiN0 https://t.co/01raR3Mkk4

@sh_akers @AntJamesMusic Take a look at the referenced study. The inclusion criteria was metabolically healthy with zero risk factors. This study may meet Dave's inclusion criteria, @The_Nutrivore https://t.co/wRKR2dYiN0

RT @Plant_proof: Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors | JACC: Journ…

Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors | JACC: Journal of the American College of Cardiology That’s right friends

Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors https://t.co/OyPydxnuZR #HeartDisease #Science #Health #Food #Diet #Nutrition #LDL #Carnivore #CarnivoreDiet

@s_testosterone @optxtop @KenDBerryMD Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors... see the problem here. It's junk science to support the statin industry.

Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors https://t.co/YOdFeXFxpp

#Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors https://t.co/7ehoaxq2OO #science